2. You say that Christ is crucified within, dead within risen and ascended within; which also you have no word of scripture to prove.

3. Your society affirm, that the coming of the Spirit into the hearts of believers do plainly hold forth, that the coming of Christ in the spirit was before his coming in the flesh; as in 1Peter 1:10,11 where the apostle speaking of the prophets inquiring into the great salvation which was afterwards to be accomplished, saith, "searching what, of what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified before hand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." Mark, here is the Spirit of Christ in the prophets, long before the first coming of Christ in the flesh, which was when he was born of Mary the Virgin, the Spirit of Christ, saith he, did testify before hand the suffering of Christ, to the prophets, which were before Christ came in the flesh, as the scriptures hold forth plentifully.

4. But again, you deny the second coming of that very Man, with that very body, which was born of the Virgin Mary; and say, his second coming is not his coming again personally, but his coming in the Spirit only; and that is all you look for, when the scripture saith; That same Jesus (who appeared to his disciples after his pa.s.sion (Acts 1:3)), shall so come, even as they did see him depart from them into heaven; which was a very Man, as well as very G.o.d.

And will come again, a very Man, as well as very G.o.d, at the end of the world. For it is that Man; namely, he that was crucified, whom G.o.d raised again, must be the judge of quick and dead (Acts 10:39-42. seriously compared).

5. Again, you say, that every man hath the spirit of Christ, which is a sad doctrine, because contrary to the scripture (Jude 19).

And you say, there is that in every man which is as good as the Spirit of Christ; which is a blasphemous doctrine. Besides many other things which they of your own spirit have most sadly spoken; which I shall not mention, being so commonly known to the saints of the Lord, before whom you have openly, and without fear (at least in shew) spoken. Which will doubtless be laid open to your sorrow and great amazement, at the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Then thou art offended because I said, I wonder that the Lord doth not either cause the ground to open her mouth and swallow you up: or else suffer the devil to fetch you away, to the astonishing the whole world. Certainly, Korah, Dathan, and Abiram did not so horribly transgress, as you have it were the astonishment of the world. Therefore I may well wonder that you are not served so.

Only this I consider, it may be, you have not yet filled up the measure of your wickedness; therefor is not the hand of G.o.d as yet upon you.

The next thing I take notice of is, that thou findest fault with mine answer to this question. "But doth not the scripture say, that it is the Spirit of Christ that doth convince of sin?" Thou sayest it is a good question, but I have confounded it in the answer, and not answered plainly. Wherefore I shall not at all stick at the pains, to give the reader in brief some of the heads of the answer I then gave to it word for word, or to the same purpose.

The answer was, yes, that Spirit doth convince of sin; but for the better understanding of this place, I shall lay down this, said I, That there are two things spoken of in scripture, that do manifest or convince of sin. First, the law (Rom 3:20). "For by the law is the knowledge of sin." Secondly, the Spirit of Christ doth also the same, as it is written, "And when he is come, he will 4convince the world of sin" (John 16:7-9). Now say I, sometimes the law itself, by its own power doth manifest sin, as in the case of Judas, who was so far from having the Spirit of Christ, that the devil had very great possession of him. Which things my adversary doth wrangle at, yet dares not affirm the contrary: only saith this, he had the righteous law of G.o.d written in his heart: which thing is not the Spirit of Christ. The law in not of faith.

The law is not the comforter, but rather a tormentor: yet the Spirit of Christ is a comforter. Again say I, the Spirit of Christ doth take the law, and doth effectually convince of sin, &c. Then I put forth another question, saying, "But how should I know whether I am convinced by the law alone, or whether the law be effectually set home by the spirit?" To which I answer, when the law doth convince by its own power, it doth convince only of sins against the law; as lying, swearing, stealing, &c. p.r.o.nouncing an horrible curse against thee if thou fulfil it not, and there leaves thee, but gives thee no power to fulfil it completely and continually, which thou must do, if thou be saved thereby. With which my adversary is much offended; also saying, that I am confounded in my discourse, and so leaves me, confuting none of my words by holy scripture, but falls a railing, because I reckon Pharisees and Quakers together.

Only this much he saith; That I make it a light thing to be convinced by the law, and then brings in that scripture; "this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men love darkness rather than light;" cunningly corrupting of it, and would fain have you understand it as spoken of the law, when the son of Mary speaks it of himself, which was not the law, but the Saviour.

And that he might the better go away undiscerned, he saith, and the law is light, therefor the light is the law (saith he). But I perceive that he doth not yet understand the difference between the light of the law, and the light of the gospel; but would fain make the law and Christ one Saviour: the one being but only a condemning light, and nothing else; the other a saving comfortable light. And whereas thou sayest, I make it a light thing to be convinced by the law, I answer; the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; and I hour it in its place; yet if they make a Saviour if it, they make an idol of it, and wrest it out of its proper place. Also, if they think that it is Christ, they are much deceived.

But farther, he put me to prove any such distinction in scripture as that there is anything made mention of therein that doth convince of son, beside the Spirit of Christ: which thing I have already answered, where I said the scripture saith, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" (Rom 2:20), and again, doth not even nature itself teach you, that it is a shame for a man to wear long hair (1Cor 11:14), and also conscience, which are neither of them the spirit of Christ, but much inferior to the same; yet this also convinceth of sin (John 8:9).

But to the other thing, which is the answer that I give in my book to this objection: But I am not only convinced of my sins (may some say) but have also some power against my sins; so that I do in some measure abstain from the sins forbidden in the law. And because I say, this thou mayest have and do, as thou thinkest, perfectly too [as thou thinks, mark that] as those fond hypocrites, called Quakers [think] that they also do, and yet be but a natural man. Here my adversary is very much offended, and calls me perverter of the right way of the Lord; and saith, Shew me any natural man in the scripture that hath done it. Whereas had he been but willing to have laid down the scripture I brought to prove it, he needed not to have looked for a second answer. But because he would have it again, I will therefore shew you, that natural men merely by nature may be convinced, and abstain from those things forbidden in the law, and think they do it perfectly, nay, they do the things contained in the law. For saith the apostle (Rom 2:14), "when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature [mark, do by nature] the things contained in the law, these, [the Gentiles]

having not the law, are a law unto themselves." Mark; the Gentiles do by nature the things contained in, or held forth, or made mention of by the law; the light also that they have, it is themselves, being a law to themselves; that is, their consciences (being of themselves) bearing them witness and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing, or else excusing one another (verse 15), though they cannot be saved thereby.

Again, when Paul was a natural man, and a persecutor of Jesus Christ, he saith of himself, that then he was, "touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless" (Phil 3:6). And whereas thou sayest, thou hadst rather choose to be one of those who abstain from those things forbidden in the law, and to have power over sin, than to live in the transgression of the law; this is fair spoken, and it doth shew that thou art under the convictions of the law; and if it be no worse, I fear thy state the less, though it be bad enough; yet this I say, If thy soul be not saved freely by the blood of that man who was crucified on Mount Calvary, and by his merits alone done by himself in his own person, thou, notwithstanding wilt fall short of eternal life. for by the works of the law, shall no flesh living be justified (Rom 3:20). Though by it be the knowledge of sin, and a command to abstain from the same. And thus have I spoken to thy 21 page.

But farther thou sayest, that thou fearest I worship the name Mary, because I mention her name so much.

[I reply] If thou hadst said, I worship her Son, thou hadst said truly (I hope) But is not thy spite more against her son, than her?

I doubt it is; for neither thou, nor they companions can endure that one should say, he is still the same that was born Mary, flesh and bones, a very man, now absent from his people, though in them in his Spirit.

Again, thou sayest I said, "That as he is G.o.d, Christ lighteneth every man that comes into the world; "which thing again I say. What then? Then say you, I will mind you of one scripture which you yourself have quoted, which saith "The law is light" (Prov 6:23).

Therefore sayest thou, "The light is the law." Give me leave here to take thy words in twain:

First, if when thou sayest, then the law is light, thou mean, the light of the law is the light of the law, and no more, thou sayest right. But if thou mean the light of the law, is the light of the gospel, or the Spirit of Christ, I must needs reprove thee. For I tell thee again, the law is not of faith, the law makes nothing perfect (Heb 7:19). The law is but a weak and unprofitable thing, as to justification (Heb 7:18), though as I said before, it is good if it be used lawfully; which is, not to seek or look for justification thereby, nor yet to say, it is the sprit of Christ.

Then farther thou art offended, because I said, when the spirit of Christ convinceth, it convinceth of more sins than the sins against the law. Friend, will the law shew a man that his righteousness is sin and dung? No, for though the law will shew a man that his failing in the acts of righteousness is sin; yet I question, whether the law will shew, that a man's own righteousness is sin.

For there is in scripture [that which] saith it doth, or can.

Secondly, shew me, if thou canst, that the sin of unbelief is spoken against in all the ten commandments, or that called the moral law.

But now the Spirit of Christ convinceth of unbelief, that is, it sheweth, that if men do not believe, that they have redemption by the obedience of that man who was laid in the manger, hanged on the cross, &c. I say, it sheweth, that those who do not lay hold on what he hath done and suffered without them in his own body on the tree (through the operation of his Spirit, which he hath promised to give to them that ask him) or else they have not yet been convinced of the sin of unbelief, and so are still in a perishing condition; notwithstanding their strict obedience, to the light within them, or to the law. And now tell me, you that desire to mingle the law and the gospel together, and to make of both one and the same gospel of Christ: did you ever see yourselves undone and lost, unless the righteousness, blood, death, resurrection and intercession of the man Christ Jesus (in his own person) was imputed to you? and until you could by faith own it as done for you, and counted yours by reputation, yea, or no? Nay rather, have you not set up your consciences, and the law, and counted your obedience to them better, and more value, that the obedience of the son of Mary without you, to be imputed to you? and if so, it is because you have not been savingly convinced by the Spirit of Christ, of the sin of unbelief.

Other things thou dost quarrel against, but seeing they are in effect the same with the former, I pa.s.s them by; and shall come to the next thing thou dost think to catch me withal, and that is; because I say, that "G.o.d only is the Saviour, there is none besides him." Therefore sayest thou, how contrary is this to that in p.

24, where I say, How wickedly are they deluded, who own Christ no otherwise that as he was before the world began. Now this in no contradiction as thou wouldest have it; for though I say there is none but G.o.d our Saviour, yet I did also then in my book shew how he was our Saviour, namely, "in that he came into the world, being born of a virgin, made under the law, that he might redeem them that were under the law, by his obedience in that nature, by suffering in that nature, by his rising again in that nature, and by carrying that nature into heaven with him," as the scriptures at large declare; and therefore, though I say G.o.d is our Saviour, and none besides him; yet they that own him to be the Saviour no otherwise than as he was before the world began, are such as deny that he is come in the flesh, and so are of antichrist (1John 2) For before G.o.d could actually be a Saviour, he must partake of another nature than the divine, even the nature of man (Heb 2:14,15).

Again, thou sayest, it is a sander put upon the Quakers, to say, they slight the resurrection: Ans. What say you, do you believe the resurrection of the body after it is laid in the grave? Do you believe that the saints that have been this four or five thousand years in their graves shall rise, and also the wicked, each one with that very body wherein they acted in this world; some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting contempt? Answer plainly, and clear yourselves, but I know you dare not, for you deny these things.

But if you speak doubtfully, or covertly in answer there unto; I doubt not but G.o.d will help me to find you out, and lay open your folly; if I shall live till another cavil by you be put forth against the truth.

The next thing thou cavillest at is, that query raised from (Eph 4:10). and thou sayest I have not answered it. You should have answered it better, or else have confuted that answer I gave unto it, and then you had done something: But the great thing that troubles thee is, because I say, (further in my book) he that ascended from his disciples, was a very man, "Handle me and see; saith Christ, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." Now let the adversary shew by the scripture (said I) that there is in them any place called heaven, which is able to contain a man of some four or five foot long (or a competent man of flesh and bones) for the s.p.a.ce of fifteen or sixteen hundred years, but that above the clouds, which troubles thee so, that it makes thy tongue run thou canst not tell how; but know, that when the son of man shall come from heaven to judge the world in righteousness, that which thou callest foolishness now, thou wilt find a truth thereby to thy own wrong, if thou close not in with him, who said, "Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39).

Another thing that thou art troubled at, is, in that I do reckon the Quakers to be of the deluding party; when alas, all men that have eyes to see; may easily discern, that you are of the generation, as will appear in part by your own expressions, both now, and also at other times. But that you may take off the brand from yourselves, you say, that the false prophets and antichrist, were in the apostle days, as though there should be no false prophets now, when the very time we live in doth manifestly declare, and hold forth, that there are many, who at this day seek to beguile unstable souls, of which sort you are not the least, though for ought I can learn as yet, you are the last, (that are come into the world) but that you may the better shift it form yourselves, you say, that in those days there was not a Quaker heard of; namely, in the days of John. Friend, thou hast rightly said, there was not a Quaker heard of indeed, though there were many Christians heard of then. By this you yourselves do confess, that you are a new upstart sect, which was not at other times in the world, though Christian saints have been always in the world. Friend, here like a man in the dark, in seeking to keep thyself out of one ditch, thou art fallen into another; instead of proving yourselves no false prophets, you prove yourselves no Christians, saying, There was not a Quaker heard of then. But if Quakers had been Christians, then they would have been heard of the glory of G.o.d, and his Christ.

Again to defend thyself thou throwest the dirt in my face, saying; IF we should diligently trace thee, we should find thee in their steps, meaning false prophets, through fained words, through covetousness making merchandise of souls, loving the wages of unrighteousness.

Friend, dost thou speak this as from thy own knowledge, or did any other tell thee so? However, that spirit that led thee out this way, is a lying spirit. For though I be poor, and of no repute in the world, as to outward things; yet through grace I have learned by the example of the apostle to preach the truth; and also to work with my hands, both for mine own living, and for those that are with me, when I have opportunity. And I trust that the Lord Jesus, who hath helped me to reject the wages of unrighteousness. .h.i.therto, will also help me still, so that I shall distribute that which G.o.d hath given me freely, and not for filthy lucre's sake.

Other things I might speak in vindication of my practice in this thing: but ask of others, and they will tell thee that the things I say are truth: and hereafter have a care of receiving anything by hearsay only, lest you be found a publisher of those lies which are brought to you by others, and so render yourself the less credible; but be it so.

And as for your thinking, that to drink water,5 and wear no hatbands, is not walking after your own l.u.s.ts; I say, that whatsoever men do make a religion out of, having no warrant for it in the scripture, is but walking after their own l.u.s.ts, and not after the Spirit of G.o.d. Thus have I pa.s.sed thy 23d page.

And lest you should think that the Quakers are not such as condemned me and others for preaching according to the scriptures; as you would fain clear your selves of this charge laid against you in my book, by your saying, you deny the accusation to be true upon any of the Quakers. I shall therefore tell you of your sister Anne Blackly, who did bid me in the audience of many, "To throw away the scriptures." to which I answered, "No, for then the devil would be too hard for me."

And again, because I said, The man Christ Jesus was above the clouds and the heavens, now absent from his people in the world, touching his bodily presence; she said, I preached up an idol, and used conjuration and witchcraft. which things I should rather have desire her to repent of, than to make her a public example for others to take warning by; but that it is expedient that your folly be laid open, that others may fear to do as you have done.

But farther, thou chargest me with a loud crying out against Christ within. This is thy throwing of dirt in my face again, for I have said it often, that if any man have not the Sprit of Christ he is none of his.

Again thou sayest that in page 203, I do take in hand to prove or discover that the doctrine of Christ within, is a false opinion.

Thou dost also here speak falsely of me, for all that I take in hand to prove, is this, that they hold a false opinion (and principles too) who hold up a Christ within, in opposition to Christ without, who is the Saviour; as doth plainly appear by my following discourse, if you read from page 203 to the end of my book.

But in the next place, after much railing, thou comest to the place where I again ask this question, "doth not the scripture make mention of a Christ within?"

To which I answer, Yes, and he that hath it not is note of his. But to lay open my folly at last thou sayest, Doth not the scripture say, Christ is within you, except ye be reprobates? and is not this thus much, are not all they reprobates (say you) but they in whim Christ is within?

Ans. They are indeed reprobates who have not Christ within them; but now, how is thy folly manifest? that in one place thou shouldest confess some are reprobates, who have not Christ within; and yet in page 18, of thy book thou sayest, it is given to every man.

And in page 26, of thy book, thou sayest, that a measure of the Spirit is given to every man, and is given within him too, though the scripture declareth the contrary, and thyself also now at last. It is well thou dost recant so much, as to eat thy first words at the last, or at least to show thyself unstable in judgment: Friend, thou mayest see, the more thou dost fight against the truth, the more thou foilest thyself: Partly by helping of it, and partly by contradiction thyself.

One thing more thou dost befool thyself with; and that is, in that thou in the first place sayest thou ownest the words in my book, and yet hath spent some four sheets of paper to vent thy thoughts against them.

But peradventure thou wilt say; those words that I own are not those that I speak against, but the other. to which I answer, There are many things in my book spoken of by me that are truth, which if you own, you must leave professing your self a Quaker. As,

1. That that man that was born of the virgin Mary, called Jesus (I say you will not own) that he in his own person, by himself without us, die completely bring in everlasting life for us, by offering up himself once for all upon the cross.

2. That Christ who wrought out redemption for his children, did after he had wrought it out, go away from them, and not into them in his person.

3. That he ever liveth, that very man to make intercession in his person, in the presence of his Father without, until the end of the world.

4. That that very man who did go away from his disciples into heaven, will come again personally the same man the second time, and before him shall be gathered all nations, and he shall judge them for their sins: and take his to himself, who shall soul and body be with him to all eternity; these things (I say) thou couldest not own, though they are the truth of G.o.d. But leaving thee to the great G.o.d, who will give thee according to thy works, in this as in other things: I shall come to thy answers to my queries.

Query 1. The first query that I propounded is, If thou sayest that every man hath a measure of the Spirit of Christ within him, why say the scriptures, "Some are sensual, having not the Spirit." And when Christ telleth his disciples, of sending them the Spirit, he saith, the world cannot receive it. Here in the first place thou hast not only answered deceitfully, but hast also corrupted my words in laying down the query, in that thou didst leave out some words, for thou didst lay it down thus: "If thou sayest that every man hath a measure of the Sprit of Christ within him, why say the scriptures, some are sensual, having not the Spirit:" and Christ saith, "The world cannot receive it." (Reader, compare them both together.)

Now thy answer, is, "Some are sensual, having not the spirit, because they receive it not, and some cannot receive it, because they believe not on him from whence it comes." Yet sayest thou, "The measure of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal,"

as the scriptures say: when there is no scripture faith, a measure of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. But again, see here thy strange confusion. 1. Say, some have it not. 2. To say every man hath it. but you would make a difference between having and receiving: but I tell thee, he that hath not received it, hath it not (Jude 19).

Query 2. My second query was, "What is the church of G.o.d redeemed by from the curse of law? Is it by something done within them, or by something done without them?" If you say, it is redeemed by something that worketh in them, then why did the man Christ Jesus hang on the cross on Mount Calvary, without the gate of Jerusalem, for the sins of his children? And why do the scriptures say, "that through this man is preached to us the forgiveness of sins?"

The answer thou givest is, "The church of G.o.d is redeemed by Christ Jesus, which is revealed in all believers. and Christ Jesus wrought in them mightily; and it was he that wrought in them to will and to do."

This is plain scripture, and the man Christ Jesus (sayest thou) hanged on the cross on Mount Calvary: because, they wickedly judged him to be a blasphemer, and through their envy persecuted him to death; because he bare witness against them, and as in their account he died, and hanged on the cross, for an evil doer. And this is one ground (at least) why he hanged on the cross, &c.