Mr. Eagan: "Well, that's as I understood it." Commissioner Worthington: "What would have been out of the way in your talking with Debs and Howard when they asked a conference with you?"

Mr. Eagan: "I didn't have any authority to talk to them."

Commissioner Worthington: "Then your authority extended to this. You had authority to contract at the expense of the railroad for all the force necessary to crush the strike but had no authority to settle it by peaceful means?"

Mr. Eagan, "Well, yes. I suppose so."

Commissioner Worthington: "When you rebuked the mayor did you think it derogatory to bear a respectful message looking to a peaceful settlement of the difficulty?"

Mr. Eagan: "I believed the American Railway Union was whipped at that time."

Commissioner Worthington: "It was then the condition and not the character of the men that signed the doc.u.ment that made you refuse to receive it?"

Mr. Eagan: "We believed we had the strike won."

Commissioner Worthington: "Did you ever try to use anything but force to settle the difficulty?"

Mr. Eagan: "None, except to the different parties that came to see me, men that I knew personally had quit work. I told them to go back to work." In regard to violence Mr. Eagan knew nothing about it personally, but a.s.sumed that the strikers did it.

Superintendent Dunlap, of the Rock Island, was asked if he recognized any of the ex-employes among the rioters, and said that he did not know many of the men but was sure that they were present. He was also asked by Mr. Wright if he knew one John T. Norton to which he answered no.

Superintendent of Police, Michael Brennan, was next examined. He testified that but a small per cent of the rioting was done by strikers.

John T. Norton, a locomotive engineer, was next called to the stand and testified that he was employed on the Illinois Central road prior to the strike, and had since obtained a position on the Calumet & Blue Island.

This line uses the Rock Island track to Joliet. He said that he pa.s.sed an examination on the C. & B. I. and also on the Rock Island. He had made one trip when informed that the Rock Island road had barred him and would not allow him to run over any part of their line. He consulted a lawyer and was told to see Superintendent Dunlap. He called on him in company with a friend named Fraser. He asked Mr. Dunlap if he was barred off the Rock Island, who said yes, and he then saw that he was blacklisted.

Mr. Kernan: "Do you call that evidence of a blacklist?"

Mr. Norton: "I do. After getting a letter from Superintendent Conlin I was barred out by Superintendent Dunlap who has just sworn he did not know me."

Mr. Kernan: "Can you produce Mr. Fraser. We would like to hear his testimony?"

Mr. Norton: "I will."

Mr. Kernan: "Were you concerned in any violence during the strike?"

Mr. Norton: "No."

Mr. Kernan: "Are you an officer of the American Railway Union?"

Mr. Norton: "Yes. I am president of local union No. 193."

Mr. Gompers of the American Federation of Labor was next examined but refused to be sworn. Mr. Gompers went into the labor question in a general way. In reference to strikes, he said that so long as the present industrial and commercial systems last, so long will strikes continue.

George M. Pullman, president of the Pullman company, was now before the commissioners. He submitted a lengthy statement in relation to the town of Pullman, and under examination he told of the increase of the Palace Car company from $1,000,000 to $36,000,000 and the acc.u.mulation of a cash surplus of $25,000,000. When questioned concerning the grievance of the employes, he was not so well posted. When asked by Mr. Wright if it was the practice of the company to reduce wages from time to time, he said:

"I am not familiar with the details of the manufacturing department and must refer you to the second vice-president."

Mr. Worthington: "Did you ever express any unwillingness to arbitrate?"

Mr. Pullman: "I did express unwillingness and refer you to my published statements. I was aware of the losses of the company in paying the wages it did when contract prices were so low, and I knew it was impossible for the company to pay a higher scale. It was a question whether the shops should be closed, or secure work at a low figure. It was the principle involved in letting a third party determine how the company should transact its business."

Mr. Worthington: "But you paid the usual dividend of eight per cent last year?"

Mr. Pullman: "Yes. But the profit during the World's Fair helped out the amount."

Mr. Worthington: "Now don't you think that the Pullman corporation which paid a dividend of $2,800,000 for the year just ended should have borne with the employes and shared its profits to some extent?"

Mr. Pullman: "I don't see why we should take the money from the stockholders to pay a set of men higher wages because the manufacturing business paid well, to pay this money to men working at Pullman when the employes at Ludlow, Wilmington and St. Louis had no complaint to make.

The efforts of the American Railway Union to call a strike there was a failure."

Mr. Worthington: "Has the Pullman Company ever voluntarily raised wages?"

Mr. Pullman: "No; but it always has paid fair wages."

Mr. Worthington: "Now, Mr. Pullman, when you see the present unrest of labor, and the possible consequences, what objection had you to distributing a portion of the profits or increasing wages a little?"

Mr. Pullman: "The reason is embodied in my statement, it is a matter of opinion, and then there is the principle involved. It is impossible under the circ.u.mstances."

Mr. Worthington: "Impossible, what is impossible? Could not arbitration determine the principle involved?"

Mr. Pullman: "As president of the company I do not care to give any other."

Mr. Worthington then introduced a lease used between the company and its tenants. This provided that the tenants should make all repairs to plumbing, water pipes, gas, etc., and to surrender premises in good repair. When such repairs were made by the company, the amount was deducted from their salaries.

Mr. Worthington: "Now, the company does not make any repairs, does it?"

Mr. Pullman: "The company repairs the roofs or outside of the houses, I am not familiar with the details."

Mr. Worthington: "But by the lease the tenants are bound to make all the repairs, it is stipulated that the tenant shall repay the company for all repairs made."

Mr. Pullman: "I will have to refer you to some official of the company."

(Laughter.)

Mr. Worthington: "The rent is deducted monthly, is it not?"

Mr. Pullman: "I am unable myself to identify that lease you handed me."

Mr. Pullman concluded with the statement that the company declined to employ any member of the American Railway Union.

Mr. Worthington again asked if the company could not afford to pay an increased scale of wages and this Mr. Pullman refused.

Mr. Kernan: "When the general cut in salaries was made, was your salary reduced?"

Mr. Pullman: "No." (Laughter.)

Mr. Kernan: "That of officials, superintendents or foremen?"