Commissioner Worthington: "Will government supervision answer the purpose?"

Mr. Debs: "I don't think so."

Mr. Worthington: "Will arbitration answer?"

Mr. Debs: "I fear not. No good can come from compulsory arbitration, that is a contradiction of terms, even if some means of enforcing the decree could be devised. Those against whom the decree was rendered would not be satisfied. The basis must be friendship and confidence."

Commissioner Worthington: "Admitting that there is some contradiction in the term compulsory arbitration, it expresses what we mean though compulsory attempts at conciliation would express it better. Would it be of no avail in any case?"

Mr. Debs: "It would undoubtedly in many cases where trouble is local and the conditions h.o.m.ogeneous, so that all of them could be considered as for instance in the Pullman troubles. It could be put in force if there was a trial by jury or something of that sort, as other courts are const.i.tuted, but in interstate matters on railroads extending over thousands of miles where conditions vary, no decree could be made to fit the case. It is easy to compa.s.s local matters but not widespread matters because the conditions are not h.o.m.ogeneous. It would be impossible to force the decree."

"MR. DEBS' TESTIMONY."

An extract from the Chicago Times.

"People who read an Editorial from the Chicago Times of Eugene V. Debs before the strike commission, as printed in the Times yesterday, cannot, if they be fair-minded, fail to be convinced of the justice of the cause in which he is working and of the sincerity and ability of the man himself.

"In a struggle for the rights of humanity individuals are nothing. He will be but a poor champion of the cause of the people who will pause to eulogize certain champions when he should be fighting for principles.

But when a leader like Debs is attacked, as he has been attacked, and all the agencies and all the influence of capitalism are set in motion to 'make an example of him'--i. e., to so persecute him that no other man will be willing to encounter like danger in the wageworkers'

cause--then must every spokesman of the working cla.s.ses speak out in defense of the leader so attacked.

"The slanders that have been directed against Debs during this struggle simply baffled recountal because of their number. He has been called crazy, drunken, revolutionary, criminal, incompetent. Newspapers have at once declared his conduct of the strike impotent and denounced him for having made it so effective. Labor has been entreated to throw him over as a puerile leader and capital has been warned that he is a dangerous man because of his surpa.s.sing ability. 'Anything to beat Debs' has been the one policy which has animated the organs of capital for the last four months.

"Well, Debs is beaten--in a certain sense. His effort in behalf of the Pullman strikers has failed and the very journals which most strenuously opposed his work are now printing the story of the dreadful dest.i.tution bred of the Pullman despotism which Debs did his best to break down.

"It is too late now to fight over again the issues of the American Railway Union strike and boycott. Debs and his a.s.sociates now stand in the shadow of the penitentiary for trying to avert by entirely proper and lawful means the conditions which now engage the attention of the governor of the state, and which must awaken the sympathy of all humane people. The privileged corporations flocked to the aid of the Pullman concern--no one conversant with the facts in the case can gainsay that.

The railroads stood by Pullman; every morning newspaper in Chicago except the Times stood by the railroads; the government joined in with the combination. Mr. Debs' testimony is to the effect that governmental action, by hastily issued injunctions, killed the strike--a statement which everybody cognizant of the course of that movement will indorse.

"There has been much evidence adduced before the investigation commission, but none so exact or none more clear than that of Mr. Debs.

His explanation of the causes of the strike and boycott is perspicuous and logical, his outline of the causes of its failure coherent and convincing, his suggestion of means for avoiding its recurrence absolutely right. He sees, as all clear-sighted and fair-minded men must see, that under the private ownership of railroads there is no possibility of justice for railroad employes. The public interest in the smooth and uninterrupted course of traffic over the roads enables the managers to call upon public opinion and even upon state forces to aid them against the employes in any serious controversy. The government ownership of railroads is indeed, as Mr. Debs has said, the one effective remedy for strikes among railroad hands. Asked for a solution of the general railroad problem, he suggested the co-operative commonwealth--a solution, doubtless, but one so difficult of accomplishment as to seem almost, if not quite, Utopian. Mr. Debs might have proceeded logically from his declaration for government ownership of railroads to government ownership and management of all other industries which tend naturally and inevitably to become monopolies.

This accomplished, the repeal of all laws giving private persons the benefit of artificial law-created monopolies would follow. Then the abolition of all taxes upon industry. Finally, the throwing open to all men on equal conditions of all natural opportunities so that every man starting in life should have, so far as human power could accomplish it, an equal chance with every other man. Under such an organization and with such laws the co-operative commonwealth which Mr. Debs suggests would probably prove unnecessary. Compet.i.tion, which is essential to the progress of civilization, would still continue, but it would be free compet.i.tion, not the calm triumph of man plus monopoly over the man without it."

Following President Debs' testimony the matter of rioting was taken up by the commissioners. Chief Deputy U. S. Marshall John C. Donnelly, testified that there were between 1,400 and 1,500 deputies sworn in, armed and paid by the government, concerning whose character and fitness practically no inquiries were made, and that there were between 3,000 and 4,000 men sworn in as deputies at the request of the railroads, armed and paid by them, and that no inquiries concerning their characters were made at all. That this army of 3,000 or 4,000 armed men clothed with the authority of the United States was not at all under the control of the U. S. marshall and was not responsible and reported to no one unless to the chiefs of detectives of the several roads. Most of the reports of drunkenness and violence of deputies were from among those hired by the railroads.

Malcolm McDonald, a reporter for the Record, was next to testify. In answer to questions by the commissioners he said, he thought as a rule the turbulent element was not composed of railroad men. He spoke to some of the American Railway Union men about upsetting cars and they denied having had any hand in it. He also said that the conduct of the U. S.

marshalls had not been such as to prevent trouble and they seemed to be hunting opportunities to get into conflict with the men.

M. L. Wickman, pastor of the Swedish Methodist Church, testified that many members of his church who worked for the Pullman Company, had to be taken care of during the fall and winter of 1893 and 1894. He told of one man who had his hand injured by a piece of flying steel. After a great deal of expense at the hospital he finally recovered the partial use of his hand and was taken back to work at reduced pay. Mr. Wickman took the case before Manager Brown, and that officer confronted him with a written statement by the injured man to the effect that the accident was one for which the company was in no way responsible. It was subsequently proved that the man's signature to the paper was forged.

Ray Baker, a reporter for the Record, said he was at Hammond during the rioting there and thought the rioters were not railroad men.

H. J. Cleveland, a reporter for the Herald, testified that he was to work along the Rock Island and Lake Sh.o.r.e tracks where considerable rioting occurred between July 4 and 15. From an extensive acquaintance among railroad men, he felt sure that there were few, if any railroad men among the rioters. Criticising the deputy marshals, Mr. Cleveland said that he saw many acts on their part which were calculated to cause trouble unnecessary, and thought, as a rule, they were men not fit to be in authority. He characterized the whole lot as a contemptible set of men. The men who were doing the rioting, had the appearance of those who had never done an honest day's work in their lives.

N. D. Hutton, reporter for the Tribune, was the next witness called. He said that he was at Blue Island and about the stock yards district.

Thought some of the rioting was done by railroad men, but could not say so from personal knowledge of the fact.

Mr. Miller, a reporter for the Tribune was next examined. He testified that he was sworn in as a deputy marshall and detailed to go to Blue Island. After relating his experience as to rioting, Commissioner Kernan asked him if he had an extensive acquaintance among railroad men.

Mr. Miller: "In the course of my work I have learned to know a great many of them by sight at least."

Commissioner Kernan: "Did you see anyone whom you know to be a railroad man engaged in violence or encouraging others who were so engaged?"

Mr. Miller: "Never, except once. That was when a meat train had been cut in two and switches were being turned. He was not doing any of it but the general tenor of his talk was in the nature of advice to what was being done. Most of the trouble was caused by hoodlums and toughs. In my reports I characterized them as hoodlums. Many were boys."

Commissioner Kernan: "What was your observation as to the sobriety or otherwise of the strikers at the meetings?"

Mr. Miller: "I scarcely remember of seeing one under the influence of liquor. Sobriety was the rule and drunkenness the exception."

Commissioner Kernan: "Did the speakers at the meetings advice against violence or did they encourage it?"

Mr. Miller: "They advised against it."

Commissioner Kernan: "Did you think them sincere in this advice or was it simply a cloak?" Mr. Miller: "I believed them sincere particularly the brainier men."

Victor M. Harding, a reporter for the Times, was the next witness, he testified to being present during the rioting on the Rock Island road, and saw boys throwing burning waste into cars within a hundred yards of a cavalry camp."

Commissioner Kernan: "Did you ever see anyone you knew to be a railroad man engaged in any violence?"

Mr. Harding: "I never did. The stock yards furnish the most glaring examples of the false and exaggerated reports of riot and disorder made by the newspapers. This district has been for years made to bear the burden of the crimes committed in this part of the city. There was comparatively little disorder at the stock yards during the strike, but the newspaper reports contained accounts of fights, shooting affrays and riots almost every night. Capt. O'Neil, of the stock yards police told me that the reporters and the militia were both responsible for this.

Volleys of shot fired by the soldiers or militia were to be heard every day and night, which on investigation proved to have no cause other than a desire to create excitement. The militia men, he said, were in the habit of firing merely for the sake of making a sensation. A crowd would naturally gather, reporters would flock around and then there would be something to tell and brag about. I know this is so from talk with the men themselves. They intimated that they were getting tired of doing nothing and were desirous of creating some excitement. One night Capt.

O'Neil said he heard a volley of shots, went to the spot and found that the shooting had been done by a lot of sentries. They said they had fired at a Polak--the common name for a Pole--who was seen crawling under a car. The soldiers claimed it was dark, the man was at a distance and was not hit. Yet they knew he was a Polak. Equally absurd stories in explanation of shooting were given the police captain on other occasions."

a.s.sistant Fire Marshall John Fitzgerald testified that he had been on duty at all fires of any importance and had witnessed many acts of incendiarism. In all instances he stated that these acts had been committed by boys or youths belonging to the hoodlum element. He said the eldest could not have been over nineteen years old. The fire department had never been obstructed in any way in reaching fires. On one occasion railroad men, whom he knew to be strikers, aided in placing an engine in position, though he had never solicited aid of any kind during the period when the fires were most numerous.

The Pullman side was now taken up by the commissioners.

Frank W. Glover was the first witness. He described himself as a real estate dealer who owned a sub-division in Kensington, besides acre property there, owned and sold houses and lots, and had tenants. In reply to Commissioner Worthington as to what he knew of the rents in Pullman, Kensington, Roseland and other similar suburbs, how they would compare, Mr. Glover said: "I should say a six-room house in Pullman for $17.00 is better than one of my six-room houses in Kensington which rents for $10.00 to $12.00. The Pullman houses are connected with sewers. The land on which they stand is better drained and from what I should judge from outside appearances they have more of what are called modern conveniences. My houses have no sewer connections, the land is low, and in spring and fall is liable to have water on it; besides I understand the Pullman Company keeps their houses in repair, while I do not."

Paul E. Hearns, stationer and newsdealer at Pullman, was the next witness. In his opinion there would have been less suffering if some of the men had let beer and whiskey alone.

L. H. Johnson, a hardware and furniture dealer, testified next. He expressed the belief that the Pullman employes were as thrifty, economical and temperate a cla.s.s of people as others of a similar cla.s.s.

Wm. R. McKay, a reporter for the Mail, was next heard. He said that he had been detailed to look after the American Railway Union headquarters and the meetings at Uhlics Hall. The speeches at all these meetings were against violence and in favor of observing the law as the only means of winning the strike.

B. H. Atwell, a reporter for the Daily News, was the next witness. He testified that he was at Blue Island during the trouble. He said the deputy marshalls had drawn revolvers without any reason. Most of the men who made trouble there were not railroad men. Railroad officials had said to him that the strikers were not making the trouble. At the stock yards also, such violence as was done was not by railroad strikers but by toughs.

The next witness called was Alex Lungren, a wood-carver. In answer to Commissioner Kernan's question if foremen had absolute power over the men in their departments, Mr. Lungren replied that he did not know.

Commissioner Kernan: "Are the workingmen compelled to obey the orders given by the foremen?"

Mr. Lungren: "Yes. They must obey orders."

Commissioner Kernan: "Is there any appeal from these orders?"

Mr. Lungren: "No."

Commissioner Kernan: "Then there is no way of getting the matter to the officials or superintendent?"

Mr. Lungren: "No."