Mr. Sovereign, grand master workman of the Knights of Labor, was the next witness. He testified that he was a member of the American Railway Union. Said the only official connection the Knights of Labor had with the strike was the adoption of a resolution that they would not ride in Pullman cars. He also stated that a general tie-up of all the industries in the country to force public sentiment on Pullman and bring to bear on the Pullman company the greatest possible pressure was contemplated, but it was found the tie-up could not be made sufficiently general to bring about the desired results, so it was not attempted.

Commissioner Kernan: "Then you do not consider the American Railway Union responsible for the rioting that occurred?"

Mr. Sovereign: "No, sir. In fact I do not think there was any rioting."

Commissioner Kernan: "Do you consider burning cars a species of rioting?"

Mr. Sovereign: "Not when it was done by U. S. marshalls."

Commissioner Kernan: "Was it so done?"

Mr. Sovereign: "I read reports in Mayor Hopkins' office to-day to that effect--reports that seem conclusive on that point. Moreover I don't think there was as much rioting as is generally believed. I came from Des Moines on what was supposed to be the last train to Chicago. We arrived without incident at Blue Island on July 6. There the train was side tracked and we were told by the officials that it could go no further because of the mobs between there and the city. I saw a west bound mail train on another track and was told it had been there for twenty-six hours and could not proceed on account of the mob and violence beyond, though it would go on the very same track on which we had just arrived. I bought a ticket from Blue Island to Chicago on the Wisconsin Central. After coming a short distance the train stopped and the conductor told us we could go no further on account of mobs ahead of us. I picked up my grip with the intention of walking to the city, but the conductor cautioned me against risking my life. However I walked in, was not molested, saw no disorder and did not see more then ten men at any one place."

Mr. Kernan inquired what views the Knights of Labor held about letting non-union men take the places of strikers.

Mr. Sovereign: "That depends on circ.u.mstances. In the case of mine owners, for instance, who have sold houses to their employes who have partly paid for same, the unjust discharge of these men means a forfeiture to the mine owners of all money paid on the property. We hold that we must by all honorable means prevent others from taking their places."

Commissioner Kernan: "But suppose honorable means are not effective?"

Mr. Sovereign: "Well, if it's necessary to prevent them from pa.s.sing a given line we clasp hands and keep them out."

Commissioner Kernan: "You do not a.s.sault them?"

Mr. Sovereign: "No. If they break through they a.s.sault us."

Mr. Sovereign did not think that strikes or compulsory arbitration was the remedy for labor troubles. He believed that the government ownership of railroads would settle the trouble for employes. He also believed the employes of corporations had an equity in their positions and for unjust discharge should have a remedy in a court of equity.

Mr. Kernan: "Why cannot the contract between employer and employe provide for all you want the law to cover?"

Mr. Sovereign: "Because labor is always dependent, always has been at least and is forced by the duress of circ.u.mstances to accept employment without insisting on protecting conditions."

George W. Lovejoy was the next witness to take the stand. In answer to a question by Commissioner Wright, he said: "I am familiar with the history of the strike on the Rock Island road. Beside the order pa.s.sed by the convention to refuse to handle Pullman cars, the men at La Salle had a special grievance that consisted of unjust treatment of the members of the American Railway Union which had a local lodge at that point. I for one was dismissed without any cause being a.s.signed.

Complaint was made to Supt. Dunlap and an explanation asked as to why the men were discharged. He refused to consider the grievance submitted to him so the men concluded to strike."

Commissioner Wright: "Was the grievance submitted in writing?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "It was. I have not a copy, but think I can get one from the local union."

Commissioner Wright: "What part did your local union take in the Pullman strike?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "It decided to sustain it."

Mr. Worthington: "Was there any violence at La Salle?" Mr. Lovejoy: "No, sir. None whatever."

Commissioner Kernan: "Have any of the old men been taken back?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "No, sir. And never will."

Mr. Worthington: "Is it on account of the strike that they cannot get back?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "I suppose it is."

Commissioner Kernan: "How general was the strike at La Salle?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "It extended to every branch of the service. Switchmen, firemen, engineers, conductors, brakemen, telegraph operators, clerks, round-hous.e.m.e.n and trackmen."

Commissioner Kernan: "Now tell us about the cause that led to your discharge as you understand it?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "Six months previous to the convention of the American Railway Union which met in Chicago, June 12, I had an understanding with the superintendent that I would get a leave of absence and was to put a man in my place while absent. When I got ready to come to Chicago, I sent a note asking for such leave of absence and transportation. The transportation was sent me, but no answer to my note was given. When I came to Chicago I called at the office of the superintendent to have an understanding about my leave and he told me that a written notice was not necessary. Whenever I wanted to go anywhere all I had to do was to put a good man in my place and go. The Tuesday following the opening of the convention the a.s.sistant superintendent went to La Salle and put another man in my place permanently. No reason has ever been given me why such action was taken."

Commissioner Wright: "Mr. Lovejoy, I suppose you have given the subjects of labor troubles and strikes some study. I wish to ask if you can suggest any solution of these troubles."

Mr. Lovejoy: "Yes, sir, I have and I consider the only way to solve the question is for the government to own the railroads."

Commissioner Kernan: "What is your reason?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "I think the employes would receive better treatment and be better satisfied. I think they would get the same kind of treatment as the postal employes and there would be no strikes under these conditions."

Commissioner Kernan: "What do you think of arbitration as a remedy?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "I have never seen arbitration tried to any great extent and while I believe in the principle I am not prepared to say that I am in favor of compulsory arbitration."

Commissioner Wright: "If the government owned the railroads how would you avoid the changes incident to a change in administration?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "I consider that railroad employes would be in practically the same position as postal clerks. They would be under civil service rules to the extent of being pensioned after a term of years of faithful service."

Commissioner Kernan: "Would it not cause jealousy among other branches of workingmen if such a system should be adopted toward railroad men?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "I do not think so. I am not jealous of postal clerks."

Commissioner Wright: "What would you suggest as the next best thing if government ownership proved impracticable?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "That the government keep hands off altogether; let the roads and their men fight out their troubles free from outside interference. It is the knowledge that the government can be called to their aid that makes many of the railroad officials so arbitrary with their men."

Commissioner Kernan: "Don't you think that disputes ought to be settled by some other method than open warfare?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "There would be none if the authorities would keep away.

The employes would settle their grievances by arbitration."

Mr. Worthington: "What would you think of a law providing that upon application of a certain number of employes the railroads should be compelled to come before a board of arbitration and make answer to the grievances of the men or vice versa before a strike could be declared? I mean by that a law which would compel a hearing of disputes by a const.i.tuted tribunal even though that tribunal had not the power to force a decision in the matter?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "I would be in favor of such a court and believe that the railroad men would abide by its decision voluntarily if they had some choice in the selection of the arbitrators."

Commissioner Kernan: "Is it not one of the greatest troubles the railroad men have to contend with that they cannot get a hearing of their grievances?"

Mr. Lovejoy: "Yes, sir. It is. And if the men could always be sure of getting a fair and impartial hearing I do not believe there would be any strikes. As a rule the men are opposed to strikes and resort to them only when every means of settling grievances has failed."

Commissioner Kernan: "Is it not true that strikes usually end disastrously to the men?"