_Smith._ "I have known him long and very intimately, and have been employed a good deal as an attorney by Palmer and his family."

_Attorney-General._ "In December, 1854, did he apply to you to attest a proposal of his brother, Walter Palmer, for 13,000 in the Solicitors and General Insurance Office?"

_Smith._ "I cannot recollect; if you will let me see the doc.u.ment, I will tell you."

_Attorney-General._ "Will you swear that you were not applied to?"

_Smith._ "I will not swear either that I was not applied to for that purpose or that I was. If you will let me see the doc.u.ment, I shall recognize my writing at once."

_Attorney-General._ "In January, 1855, were you applied to by Palmer to attest a proposal of his brother for 13,000 in the Prince of Wales Office?"

_Smith._ "I don't recollect."

_Attorney-General._ "Don't recollect! Why, 13,000 was a large sum for a man like Walter Palmer, wasn't it, who hadn't a shilling in the world?"

_Smith._ "Oh, he had money, because I know that he lived retired and carried on no business."

_Attorney-General._ "Didn't you know that he was an uncertified bankrupt?"

_Smith._ "I know that he had been a bankrupt some years before, but I did not know that he was an uncertified bankrupt. I know that he had an allowance from his mother, but I do not know whether he had money from any other source. I believe that his brother, William [the prisoner], gave him money at different times."

_Attorney-General._ "Where, in the course of 1854 and 1855, were you living--in Rugeley?"

_Smith._ "In 1854 I think I resided partly with William Palmer, and sometimes at his mother's."

_Attorney-General._ "Did you sometimes sleep at his mother's?"

_Smith._ "Yes."

_Attorney-General._ "When you did that, where did you sleep?"

_Smith._ "In a room."

_Attorney-General._ "Did you sleep in his mother's room--on your oath, were you not intimate with her--you know well enough what I mean?"

_Smith._ "I had no other intimacy, Mr. Attorney, than a proper intimacy."

_Attorney-General._ "How often did you sleep at her house, having an establishment of your own at Rugeley?"

_Smith._ "Frequently. Two or three times a week."

_Attorney-General._ "Are you a single or a married man?"

_Smith._ "A single man."

_Attorney-General._ "How long did that practice of sleeping two or three times a week at Mrs. Palmer's continue?"

_Smith._ "For several years."

_Attorney-General._ "Had you your own lodgings at Rugeley at the time?"

_Smith._ "Yes, all the time."

_Attorney-General._ "How far were your lodgings from Mrs. Palmer's house?"

_Smith._ "I should say nearly quarter of a mile."

_Attorney-General._ "Explain how it happened that you, having your own place of abode within a quarter of a mile, slept two or three times a week at Mrs. Palmer's."

_Smith._ "Sometimes her son Joseph or other members of her family were on a visit to her, and I went to see them."

_Attorney-General._ "And when you went to see those members of her family, was it too far for you to return a quarter of a mile in the evening?"

_Smith._ "Why, we used to play a game of cards, and have a gla.s.s of gin-and-water, and smoke a pipe perhaps; and then they said, 'It is late--you had better stop all night;' and I did. There was no particular reason why I did not go home that I know of."

_Attorney-General._ "Did that go on for three or four years?"

_Smith._ "Yes; and I sometimes used to stop there when there was n.o.body there at all--when they were all away from home, the mother and all."

_Attorney-General._ "And you have slept there when the sons were not there and the mother was?"

_Smith._ "Yes."

_Attorney-General._ "How often did that happen?"

_Smith._ "Sometimes for two or three nights a week, for some months at a time, and then perhaps I would not go near the house for a month."

_Attorney-General._ "What did you stop for on those nights when the sons were not there; there was no one to smoke and drink with then, and you might have gone home, might you not?"

_Smith._ "Yes; but I did not."

_Attorney-General._ "Do you mean to say, on your oath, that there was nothing but a proper intimacy between you and Mrs. Palmer?"

_Smith._ "I do."

_Attorney-General._ "Now I will turn to another subject. Were you called upon to attest another proposal for 13,000 by Walter Palmer in the Universal Office?"

_Smith._ "I cannot say; if you will let me see the proposal, I shall know."

_Attorney-General._ "I ask you, sir, as an attorney and a man of business, whether you cannot tell me whether you were applied to by William Palmer to attest a proposal for an a.s.surance for 13,000 on the life of Walter Palmer?"

_Smith._ "I say that I do not recollect it. If I could see any doc.u.ment on the subject, I daresay I should remember it."

_Attorney-General._ "Do you remember getting a 5 note for attesting an a.s.signment by Walter Palmer to his brother of such a policy?"

_Smith._ "Perhaps I might. I don't recollect positively."

_Attorney-General_ (handing a doc.u.ment to witness). "Is that your signature?"