"Is it not a fact, Mr. Garland, that the different denominations very rarely commune with each other?" asked Mr. Walton.

"You are correct," said Mr. Garland. "Although we practice open communion, it is the rarest thing in the world for a member of another denomination to commune with us or for any of our members to commune in the church of any other denomination."

"I can respect a person who differs from me," said Dorothy, "but a person who seems to be so anxious to appear on good terms with me as to be willing to smooth over or minimize his convictions--oh, I want none of that. If we differ in our views and think the other is not keeping the Scripture requirement, then let us differ and not pretend that we are together or that our differences do not amount to anything."

"I think that their doctrine of close communion has greatly hurt the Baptists and kept from them many who would otherwise have joined them,"

said Mr. Garland.

"I must differ with you," said Mr. Walton. "If the Baptists abandon their position on the communion question they could not hold their position on immersion. You know that in England, where the Baptists are not gaining, many of the open communion Baptist churches also have open church membership, thus admitting people to the church who have not been immersed. Do you know why the Baptists of the South have grown so much more rapidly than the Baptists in all other parts of the world?"

"No, I do not," answered Mr. Garland.

"It is because they are strict in their views and stand loyally by their denominational convictions."

"What is another doctrine of your denomination, Mr. Walton?" asked Dorothy.

"Another doctrine is the 'independence of the local church'."

"Independent of what?" asked Dorothy.

"I mean that no pope, priest, presbytery nor bishop, nor any ecclesiastical power has any authority over any local church, but that the church in the conduct of its affairs is entirely independent."

"That sounds like pretty good democracy," said Mr. Page.

"It is democracy, pure and simple," said Mr. Walton. "The Baptist doctrine is that every individual has equal religious rights with every other individual, that all members are on a level, that the local members are capable of managing their own affairs. And, by the way, Mr.

Page, did you know that Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration of Independence, got his ideas of democracy largely from a little Baptist church?"

"What is that?" asked Mr. Page, leaning forward in his chair. "You say that a Baptist church gave to Mr. Jefferson his ideas of democracy? If you will prove that, Mr. Walton, you will be giving us the livest bit of sensation that I have gotten hold of for many a day."

"I have the newspaper here in my pocket that proves what I say. The writer is Rev. Dr. Fishback, of Lexington, Ky., and he writes for the Christian Watchman, and he tells of a conversation he had with Elder Andrew Tribble, who was a Baptist preacher and whose church was near the residence of Thomas Jefferson, and it was this Baptist church of Mr.

Tribble that gave to Mr. Jefferson his ideas of democracy."

"Do you have in that paper a letter from Mr. Tribble about it?" asked Mr. Page.

"No, but I have a letter from Mr. Fishback telling of the conversation he himself had with this Mr. Tribble about the matter."

"All right, let us have it."

Mr. Walton opened the paper (The Christian Watchman, a paper that bore the marks of age) and said: "Here is Dr. Fishback's letter:

"'Mr. Editor: The following circ.u.mstances, which occurred in the state of Virginia relative to Mr. Jefferson, was detailed to me by Elder Andrew Tribble about six years ago, who since died about ninety-two or ninety-three years old. The facts may interest some of your readers.

"'Andrew Tribble was the parson of a small Baptist church which held monthly meetings at a short distance from the Jefferson home nine or ten years before the American revolution. Mr. Jefferson attended the meetings of the church several months in succession, and after one of them asked Elder Tribble to go home and dine with him, with which he complied. Mr. Tribble asked Mr. Jefferson how he was pleased with their church government. Mr. Jefferson replied that it had struck him with great force and had interested him much, that he considered it the only form of pure democracy that then existed in the world, and had concluded that it would be the best plan of government for the American colonies.

This was several years before the Declaration of Independence.'"

"Well, well," exclaimed Mr. Page, "that is mighty interesting. That surely is a big tribute to the Baptists, and that does seem the natural form of government for a church."

"But does the Bible say that a church ought to be governed that way?"

asked Dorothy.

"I think the Presbyterian form of government is taught in the Scriptures," said Mr. Sterling; "in other words, that a church ought to be governed by a body known as the presbytery."

"That means that a larger body should be governed by a smaller body, does it not?" asked Mr. Page.

"Yes," answered Mr. Walton.

"That may be Scripture," said Mr. Page, "but I don't like it."

"I think it is wise as well as Scriptural," said Sterling. "You know that today in all great bodies it is a few leaders that do the thinking and planning and directing. Even in the Baptist church, that claims to be a democracy, I'll venture that a few men in each church hold the reins. How much better to have a body of wise men to whom all important questions shall be submitted and who shall have general oversight over and direction of the affairs of the church."

"I must differ with Mr. Sterling as to the Scriptural plan of church government," said Mr. Walton. "I think the Bible clearly teaches that each local church in the days of the apostles managed its own affairs.

Where have you any record in the Bible, Mr. Sterling, of any presbytery or smaller body of men controlling the affairs of any local church?"

"I can cite you a case."

"Good," said Mr. Page. "Let us have it."

"The council at Jerusalem drew up a list of requirements that were to be binding on the churches. That looks very much like a body of men legislating for local churches."

"Of course the apostles in their day gave direction for the churches,"

said Mr. Walton. "They were inspired to give directions to the churches. In fact, they were the founders of the churches. Christ gave through them the rules for the churches not only of that day, but of all succeeding days."

"It looks as if the apostles directed the churches, and why do you say the churches managed their own affairs?" asked Sterling.

"No, I do not think the apostles managed the churches. The apostles at the first had to give rules for the founding and starting of the churches, but even in the first days the apostles threw upon the churches the responsibilities of their own government. You remember that when an apostle was to be chosen to take the place of Judas he was not chosen by the other apostles, but by all the disciples just as if they were all, disciples and apostles, on a level when it came to voting for anything. They cast lots, and I have seen it stated that this casting of lots was simply a voting by ballot, and that is the democratic, Baptist way. You remember that Christ said that a person having a grievance against another person must, as a final step, tell it to the church, and if the offender would not hear the church then he must be as a heathen and a publican. There you see the ultimate authority was lodged in the church to deal with the offender and not in some presbytery or in some ecclesiastical council. How were the deacons elected? They were told to look out seven men of good report. This was said to the mult.i.tude of disciples, and this mult.i.tude was to look out from among them the seven men who should be appointed for the purpose. Notice it was not the apostles that picked out the men, but they made the selection the work of the people. In fact, in every church mentioned in the New Testament it is plain that there was no ecclesiastical interference in the affairs of the church. Even Paul, the founder of the churches, in his letters, throws upon the churches the responsibility of dealing with their problems. In the case of the incestuous man he said 'when your church is come together' cast out this man; that is, 'get your church together and let them act on it'."

"I think you make out a good case, Mr. Walton, and this principle of democracy is the best thing about the Baptists that I have yet heard,"

said Mr. Page.

"There are other interesting facts about the Baptists," said Mr. Walton, "but I find I must leave at this point. If you should care to learn more about our denomination I should be glad some time to give you further information."

"Can't you come again tomorrow night?" asked Dorothy in an eager manner.

"An engagement will prevent this, but I could come on some other night."

It was so agreed, though the Pages did not suspect the surprises that were in store for them.

CHAPTER XII.

DISCOVERY.

After the party broke up after their last discussion Mr. Page complimented the Baptists on their democratic principles of church government. "But, daughter," he said, "it will be impossible for you to mingle with that cla.s.s of people. I am glad for you to know about the different denominations, but joining one of them is a horse of a very different color, and I am sure you could never be happy tied up with these Baptist people. They may be good folks, but they are evidently a poor and obscure folk. I guess they have sprung up mostly in country districts. I remember in the valley of Virginia where I was reared there was a little Baptist church in the country five or six miles from us.

The Presbyterian church, I think, was the strongest and the Baptists cut very little figure in that section, though I confess I did not pay much attention to any of them."